Taking this to the forum as suggested by big brother.
Does skipping holds on an existing problem equate to a new problem or is it just a variation of the existing problem?
Let's look at it from different perspectives. What's a good example of a problem with variations?...Caveman in JTree. It ends on two different places outside the cave, you can skip the hidden hueco to bump the grade up by one, you can take a high juggy variation or stay low on a sweet gaston, and you can even do it in reverse. But they are all still considered Caveman.
So when is a new problem generally established off an existing problem?:
a) adding a new, ridiculously difficult SDS (ex: the Chuckawalla Sit)
b) adding a new, ridiculously difficult topout/end (ex: EZ Direct Mantle)
c) combination of a. and b. (ex: Mandala Direct SDS)
d) joining two or more problems (ex: Terremer, The Wheel of Life)
e) same start, same finish, different path (ex. I-FLOP vs Pancake House, Double Orifice vs Double Orifice Direct)
So when is it not a new problem?
- Given an existing problem following an order A-B-C, when starting at A, ending at C, following an intended path B, you skip holds or use intermediates. With respect to skipping holds or using intermediates, neither warrant a proclamation of a new or distinct problem as all available holds pre-exist on path B, and how they are utilized may be easier, harder or equal in difficulty depending on your stats and/or climbing style. Consequently, this should only warrant a tick with a reasonable grade, given the climbers stats and style, and what/how existing holds on path B were used during the send.
- A simpler argument; we all tend to skip holds on VB's and V0's, especially in the gym. But do we ever claim it's a new problem? Usually never. We just call it a "variation" of an existing problem, if anything.
Some problems where skipping holds are regarded as distinct problems:
- The Crack Eliminate at Stoney. Skipping all the holds on the right side but nonetheless just a harder variation of an already great problem?
- Vaino's Dyno at Stoney. Skips everthing between the start holds and the sloper topout of the Yabo Mantle. Some of you really tall guys don't even need to dyno, it's just a really huge dynamic move. Some really high feet and even a shorter guy like me can reach the sloper from the same start holds.
- Unitizing the "G" at the Tram - Offroutes a large foothold, otherwise the same as Nipple Shredder. Who removed the pink-on-blue tape from the foothold?
There is a slight gray area; a certain run-and-jump...A Streetcar Named Desire. Given the nature of this run-and-jump, the "start hold" is the topout dish. But different start hold == distinct problem! However, some consider this to be just a different variation of Streetcar...
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